The Future of Licensing: AI, Dynamic Royalties & Virtual Influencers

What will licensing look like in 2035? Sharon Weisman has the answers.

As US CEO of Portman Street and former executive at License Global and Licensing International, Sharon reveals how AI, dynamic royalty structures, and responsive IP ecosystems will revolutionize our industry. From virtual influencers making $2.6M monthly to AI clones that could teach licensing, this conversation explores the dramatic shifts ahead.

In this episode, discover:

• Why fixed royalties will become dynamic and performance-based
• How virtual influencers are making millions (but won't last)
• The truth about NFTs and secondary market royalties
• Why "ugly is the new cute" in licensing trends
• How AI will eliminate guesswork in product design
• The wellness and education white spaces worth billions
• Why private companies win at sustainability

From predicting anime's trajectory to explaining why Gen Alpha doesn't know what they want yet, Sharon challenges everything we think we know about licensing's future.

🔮 Connect with Sharon: LinkedIn @Sharon Weisman 

🏢 Learn more: PortmanStreet.com

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Transcript

Gen Alpha doesn't know what they want and that's our biggest opportunity in licensing. The guesswork will start going away and technology will aid us doing that. I truly think we're going to have dynamic royalty structures. 

Do you see a future where there's a Barbie 2 and there's this dynamic royalty?

There's two options. Either it starts low and then if it's performing well. The only reason that didn't happen until now is that we didn't have AI tools to track that. We're sleeping on personalization and customization. I truly think that in the future, especially by 2035 for sure we will have I coined it the responsive IP ecosystem. There are influencers right now that are making $2.6 million a month. It's like 33k a post. Ugly is the new sexy this virtual influencer. They can up longer doesn't necessarily mean better. 

How do we design IP products for kids that right now and in the future they see no distinction between digital and physical experiences? 

Hey, here's the dirty secret . . 

The licensing industry is evolving at breakneck speed. Virtual influencers are earning millions, dynamic royalty structures are replacing fixed rates, and Gen Alpha doesn't even know what they want yet. Today I'm chatting with Sharon Weisman as we predict where licensing is heading next. I think this chat will challenge everything you know about the future of our industry. 

Before we dive into today's show, I wanted to share something really exciting with you. For the first time ever, I'm opening my vault of nearly 20 years of licensing experience through my online course Learn to License. Whether you're just starting out or looking to level up your licensing game, this is everything I wish I'd known when I began my journey from deal structures to finding the right license, knowing if you're ready and how to pitch like a pro.  It's all there, the fundamentals that separate successful licensors from everyone else. Visit learntolicense.com and let's get you from curious to confident. Now let's jump into today's episode. 

All right, Sharon, thanks so much for joining us. I've always felt that you're someone who has their finger on the pulse of where licensing is heading. Not just next year, but over the next decade. I'm really looking forward to talking with you about the future of licensing, what that looks like. So Sharon, thanks for joining us on the Bornlicensing for License podcast. 

Thanks for having me. I spend most of my time busy connecting the dots between creativity and commerce. I'm so happy to be here. Also Representing my company. I'm the US CEO of Portman Street. We're an agency that provides services from creative to commerce. So that means consultation, strategy, design, product development, manufacturing, sourcing really soup to nuts all the way to distribution and commerce. So we help a lot of sectors in the licensing industry, if it's brand manufacturers or retailers to create what we call meaningful merch. And that makes customers stop in their steps and say that I want that. 

I give jumps off shot. Why is it, Sharon, do you think that I've chosen you to help me cover the future of licensing? What is it about your experience in the licensing space that you think may have. May have led to me thinking Sharon's the one? 

I think because I'm easy on the. I. I'm kidding. I think, I think that I was very fortunate in my career to always have the eagle eye view of what is happening in the industry. So a lot of us are very busy with paperwork and trying to figure out a strategy that's very narrow or in a certain sector. Where I used to work at Licensed Global Magazine, all the news came flowing through my veins. I kind of got to learn more who is sitting where in a very objective way. And then over to the. To Licensing International, what used to be Lima, the official licensing organization, which also helped me kind of understand who is representing what. 

 What are the politics, the strategies and kind of all sectors in the industry that bring us to this moment, enabling me to challenge the status quo, to look at things differently and hopefully help a lot of people in the anticipate trends rather to react to them last minute. 

 So very much like looking at where is the puck going in this industry. And you've been on the ground at Licensing Expo. I've seen you there many times. Comic Con, what's the biggest shift that you're seeing right now that you think most people in the industry might be sleeping on? 

 That's a very good question. I think we're sleeping on personalization and customization. And you see this in other spaces and industries. You see this in the med space, you see this in the content space. It's not one fits all anymore. You know, it used to be, oh, here's a blockbuster drug, David, here, take an aspirin. Everything will go away. Or it used to be you and I could now have a conversation about what we watched on TV last night because we probably watched the same thing. But now everything is very fragmented and merchandise and commerce has to do that as well to really honor the fans, to really meet people where they are to jump on moments. I'm seeing a lot of licensees owning the where the moment. What is the meme? What is the trend? What's exciting right now? 

 And people then kind of similar to fast fashion buying and reacting to it in the moment. How. 

 How do you do that? Because I feel like things come and go so quickly. We have, you know, these big mom. Like the Coldplay concert with the, you know, with the hug with the CEO of the company. Like, that was a big moment. Then Gwyneth Paltrow came in for the company and did that. But then that was a few weeks ago and I feel like we've all moved on. Like, when it comes to consumer products, how do you. How do you manage to take to be a part of a moment that's so fleeting? 

 We know that what will be staying in licensing will always be building on the three Cs, right? That's content, community and commerce. That's what we play with. That's flywheel. Now you have to look at bigger trends to figure out what am I hopping on that will kind of be sustainable and last for a while. Because we don't want these constant bursts of excitement. We want to either own a moment in life or a season or an overall trend. So there are trends that we know that will stick, like the Olympic halo, the sports sensation that we're going through that will stick well into 2029. It started in Japan, then the excitement in France, and guess what? The World cup as well as the Olympics is coming to Americas, which is the biggest market for licensing. We're seeing that athletes are the new celebrities. Right. 

 Everyone is more excited about putting Prada on Travis Kelce rather than working with celebrities right now that can be a bit more fickle. So it's kind of tuning into those changes, recognizing them, and say, how can I as a company or how can my products or how can my brand alter its DNA, hop on these waves and hop on them early? Right? Because if you hopped on them when they're already high, you're just trickling down with everyone else. 

 You almost have to be a bit of a fortune teller to a certain extent. And you probably have to take some risks and not all of them are going to land. 

 Absolutely. But you know what, let's dig a bit deeper on that. I think that the guesswork will start going away and technology will aid us doing that. I truly think that in the Future, especially by 2023 for sure, 2035, for sure, we will have. I coined it the responsive IP ecosystem. 

 What? 

 What did I just say? Responsive IP ecosystem actually means that we'll have a lot of things that are data driven now. It will take a lot of the guesswork out of the way and this means we'll see IPs changing based on consumer insights and engagement and based on territories. It will mean that our design will be data driven design and not just guessing based on what a certain creative thinks will be trendy or not. There'll be data driven commerce that will change strategies and optimize constantly where we're selling and how we're selling it. And then the most important thing, I truly think we're going to have dynamic royalty structures. So this fixed percentage will change to be royalties that will kind of be tweaked based on performance. So same as we said before, if we're talking about the Olympics, for example. Yes. 

 If you signed a deal with a certain IP that is connected to that and we don't know if they're going to win or not, or if we're putting our chips, like you said, on a certain movie, we won't necessarily have to guess, you know, oh my God, will that movie bomb or will this succeed? I think we'll have contracts that will help us figure out how we shift accordingly, how the risk is mitigated. And it doesn't have to be this magic, you know, dust that's sprinkled onto everything that we don't know if it will be successful or not. 

 Let's talk specifically about, I think that's so interesting, Sharon, is how do commercial structures of licensing agreements that have been with us stood the test of time for such a long time, you know, they may change. And what you've mentioned is really quite interesting. Let's use the Barbie movie as an example. That was a massive hit. And I think a lot of people leading up to it thought it was going to be a hit. And quite rightly, you know, it was huge, both in consumer products, box office, everything. Do you see a future where, you know, there's a Barbie too and there's this dynamic royalty structure in that the royalties are low until it's proven to be a success and then the royalty rate will be higher. Is that what you mean when. 

 We Talk about Dynamics 2 options, either it starts low and then if it's performing well, the licensee who took the risk will say, hey Mattel or Warner Brothers and this cough up more royalties. Right. Like there will be a structure where it will say in the contract that Based on certain performance or feedback or insight or sales, the royalty rate will grow higher. The only, the only reason that didn't happen until now is that we didn't have AI tools to track that. A lot of what we do is based on very dusty CSV files. That's the God honest truth. A lot of decision making is based on data that we just kind of accept, but we never challenge. We don't know if it's exactly what's happening in the market now or what will happen by next year, what the benchmarks should be. 

 So I really think that is something that a lot of licensees are going to do in order to mitigate the risk and to see, you know, will this team win the super bowl or not? In sports, this is, it's been done already. A lot of licensees do sign deals saying, you know, and if they win the super bowl, this will be the structure of the deal. And if they won't, this will be the structure of the deal. So this will be a bit more constant and tweaking and we'll be able to do that. Lawyers are definitely looking into that right now. 

 So this isn't happening today, but it could be happening in the next 12 months, next five years. When, when do you think it will start? 

 Next five years for sure. Listen, we're already starting with the tariffs, for example, because we. The God honest truth is you don't know. You don't know in what mood Trump will wake up today on which side of the bed. Right? So especially agents are looking at contracts saying, you know, and if the tariffs will be like this will be the structure of the deal or there'll be a certain cap. So it's not this continuous adjustment that we will see, in my opinion, in five years. But right now there are already clauses, amendments, little tweaks to the contracts based on what the actual deal terms and conditions are adjusting to reality. 

 Interesting. Let's talk about some new trends that we've seen in the industry. Things like virtual influencers, wellness products, those kinds of things. Emerging categories that we possibly weren't thinking about, you know, 10 years ago. Do you think that these are passing fads or do you think that these kind of categories will still be around in 2035? 

 I think, I think here's what I'm putting my chips on. Anything sports related will continue to be a trend and that ties into a wellness trend that we could talk about soon. But definitely anything. Sports athletes are the new celebrities. Like I said, I think the creator Economy is here to stay. Maybe not in a way that we anticipate it to be, but there will be creator driven IP licensing in many ways. And you see how Roblox creators are already kind of lowering the threshold, taking out the gatekeepers, democratizing the space, and creating licensing deals in days instead of years. I think what I'm not sure about is this. There's this whole ugly is the new cute. You know, ugly, scary is the new cute. We're seeing it with Labubu, we're seeing it with Wednesday. We're seeing it everywhere. I think it's just. 

 It's part of this bigger trend where imperfect is the new perfect. Because being perfect is so hard and everyone's struggling right now, especially post Covid, so it's easier to say, you know, this I can relate to. They call it authentic. The word authentic has been chewed to death, but it's really authentic means relatable. What can I relate to? Is this real? Is this for real? And yeah, if ugly and scary is the new cute and it brings communities together to be scared together or entertained together, I think that's key. Anime is a very strong trend right now. It's hard to say how that will develop. At first I thought, okay, anime is trending, but will we go back to basics? 

 So will we go back to the manga and dig into that or will we start forming these new strands of anime, kind of like webtoons is doing and marrying it with Greek mythology or with new trends and new aesthetics and creating kind of this upbeat new anime that is really rooted in whatever pop culture is right now. So I think all these trends will look at them, they will constantly be changing. They will be influenced by creators online and where communities are formed. 

 Yeah, I really love how you identified ugly as the new sexy. We've seen that with fugglers, for example. Fugglers are having a really great time, loving their collaborations and everything. Labubu obviously has just gone absolutely crazy. Let's continue on the topic of looking ahead the future. Let's talk about licensing the Gen Alpha demographic. This is the generation that's growing up with AI assistants, virtual pets. How do we design IP products for kids that right now and in the future they see no distinction between digital and physical experiences? 

 Hey, here's the dirty secret. I truly believe this, David. Gen Alpha doesn't know what they want yet. And there's tons of agencies out there and articles and there's just so much content out there that tries to tell you what Gen Alpha wants. And we have research and we already know what Gen Beta wants. There's absolutely no way they know what they want. They're so confused. And that's our biggest opportunity in licensing. You know, they're discovering brands now through social play on Roblox, on TikTok, brands have an opportunity now to absolutely shape their taste through cultural moments, through marketing, through merchandise. And there's some winning formulas out there. Roblox and Fenty hopped on that. You know. 

 Do you want to tell me that Gen Alpha knew that they needed a, a, a certain lip gloss that they can buy in real life and then get the exclusive avatar shade? They have no idea. They, she didn't know she needed a lip gloss and now she does. Right. So we're not just selling products right now. We have to remember when we create the strategy that we're programming their aesthetic, their preferences and kind of making them feel like it's them that they're choosing. But again, with data driven design and the fact that we know that actually 70% of them want one shopping experience, they want to go out, they want to, like my kids say, touch grass. But it's on us to create that flywheel, this hybrid that will bring them there. That is really interesting. Kind of an online offline play. 

 I think the thing that we're doing that we must stop is we have to stop treating Gen Z like they're living in Roblox or Minecraft or whatever, because they really aren't. They're actually begging us to find them new things to do in real life and to go out there and yes. Do they then want that red cloak that no one has so they can flex it in front of 2000 of their closest friends? Sure. But we have a grand opportunity here to shape what they want and what they like. Instead of pretending we know. 

 Let's switch gears a little bit. You've called sustainability non negotiable in licensing and probably generally, how do you think values like environmental responsibility and social impact actually change the partnerships we're having in our industry? 

 It's a bit of a double ended sword, isn't it? First of all, shout out to the good souls at products of change that are truly working around the clock to provide the very traditional industry with tools to do better. And it's not an easy shift. After all, our industry is plastic fantastic and price point drives that. And then everyone wants everything so fast, like you said in the beginning. So again, does fast mean sustainable or with purpose? So again, relatability and authenticity is everything. Gen Alpha will be the first to smell BS from miles away and they'll roast you. If you're screaming echo friendly or purpose while dumping microplastics, they'll call you out on that. So there's two things that I feel very strongly about that everyone in our industry needs to do. 

 It's a brands need to sell great product, but really it comes down to quality great product and not opinions. I'm buying a product, I'm not buying an opinion. And then either do it right or don't do it at all. Because otherwise you're seeing all these trends emerging based on the ones who are kind of trying to do it but aren't going all the way. And then it's actually hurting them. You see green washing and pink washing and rainbow washing and everything washing. So the minute the new generation suspects that you don't truly mean it and you're not walking the walk, they'll call you out on it. And then it can hurt you more than it can help you. So that's what I'm saying. Sell great product. Don't try to sell opinions. If you can't back it up 100%, look at Sephora and Starbucks. 

 Right now they're being boycotted by both sides of the political spectrum and cultural scales because they try to make everyone happy and they try to pretend to really believe in causes, but virtue signaling is out. So just make really good product. You know, if they're core values that are part of your DNA, absolutely. But really it can hurt you more than it can help you. And the brands that are winning in the space, I mean look at Patagonia, look at Lego, you know, they're investing in plant based bricks. They're. But, but what? Actually, pause. What do they have in common? They're, they're not publicly traded, you can't buy their stock. They're private companies. 

 So you have companies like REI that's doing everything right, but then, you know, the naysayers and, and the people who are trying to always poke holes, it's actually deterring, you know, they're, you could see their stock plunging. So perception is everything. And if you're lucky enough to be a privately held company and create that perception that you're doing things right from a sustainability or purpose perspective, I think that's where you win. So you have to be very careful. 

 So do you think a private company, essentially, they don't have the, you know, being on the, on the stock market, being a Public company, there's a lot of pressure to perform. Profits, profits. You know, there's the ongoing challenge of what their stock price is. The Patagonias and the Legos of the world, they don't have that kind of short pressure that they have to deal with. So they can actually make really long term deliberate decisions on their culture, their sustainability, their environmental values. 

 Exactly. And perception is everything. You know, we're not sitting here watching their stock plunging or getting upset at them if the stock is going down or calling bullshit on things that they're doing because they're privately held. They can invest when they can, whatever they can in the right way. 

 Let's talk about NFTs. Because I completely missed the boat with NFTs. I think I realized towards the end I was like, oh, okay, that's something that I think was big in our industry. And I was too busy looking the other direction. And to be honest, I still don't quite understand NFTs and blockchain and things like that. Can you tell me a little bit more about how you think that moment was for us, if it's still a moment? Because I know there was a stage where everybody was jumping on NFTs. That was kind of like the big opportunity in licensing. And then I kind of feel like the. That noise has died down a bit. But what do you think? 

 So, as always, a few bad apples rotten the entire cart. Right. And I think it exists. I think we got excited for a second because we saw a revenue stream emerge that we didn't, that wasn't, that didn't exist before. And as an industry, we needed that. So everyone hopped on it. Same as AI is a buzzword, right? When I spoke at CES three years ago, it was all about NFTs. I spoke at CES two years ago. Then it was all about the Metaverse and the virtual world. This year, absolutely no one spoke about it. It was all about AI. Right? So every time there's that buzz, technology that tries to kind of ride the wave and see, you know, who can adopt innovation. What happened with NFTs? I think it was a great idea for us. 

 It was definitely a wonderful strategy for secondary markets. And think about it, look at all these thrift stores. I mean, that's a trend that's sticking. Everyone's saying, oh my God, why do I need new shit? Let me just go to the thrift store and buy that, like vintage, I don't know, Pokemon T shirt or Mickey Mouse T shirt. But is Disney seeing royalties from those secondary Markets when it's sold again to get another seller, even if it's online, they're not. So for us, in a way, blockchain technology could have aided us a understanding the journey of the product, where it came from, who manufactured it, was it licensed correctly, who owned it before, and then figure out the royalty structure based on that. But the God honest truth is not everything needs to be on the blockchain. 

 I mean, it was a great technology, it's still around. It makes sense completely for very important documentations, numbers, personal effects. But not everything needs to be minted. Again, we go back to purpose and sustainability. So there are IPs that emerged in that space and still license like pudgy penguins, right? But for us, that technology of NFTs, it just boomed too fast and then someone pulled the rugs and there were a few, you know, rotten apples and then we all got so scared that we left the space, most of us, very quickly. But there was an opportunity there. You could see that one in every four men are collectors, right? And then it shows that one out of four collectors likes collecting online. They don't care if the asset is digital or not, right? And you could show ownership. 

 So from a psychology perspective, in our industry, where we know a lot of merchandise is collector driven, we knew that was an opportunity, but no one did it correctly. And then all the bad press came out. No one wants touch anything. So I think we changed the lingo a bit. When, when we talk to clients about what it would mean to have digital assets, we ask ourselves, does it have to be on the block or not? Probably doesn't. And if it does, if there is a collector's angle there, we don't call it NFTs anymore, we call it Digital Assets. So we kind of go get by that way. But I think I go back to the flywheel and that balance offline and online. So all these opportunities to have a retail space that is completely digital is wrong. 

 It has to have something in the real life that just brings you back to the digital. Walmart is doing it in a very smart way. Walmart realm now connected with Walmart Deliver, which is two very exciting prospects where something happens in the virtual world where a lot of young creators are connecting. You can buy shit there, but then Walmart delivers actually mobile trucks that meets them in real life when there's a cultural moment there, you know, at that K pop concert or at that event, and now they still sell real merch that is connected to that. So creating that flywheel A quick pause here. 

 If what we're discussing is really resonating with you're going to love what I've put together in Learn to License. This isn't just another course. It's two decades of real world licensing experience distilled into actionable strategies you can use immediately. I've worked with everyone from startups to Fortune 500 brands and the patterns for success are surprisingly consistent. The course covers all things that you need to consider when it comes to licensing, particularly those who are just starting out. So visit learntolicense.com your future licensing deals will thank you all right, back to our conversation. There was something you mentioned, Sharon, that I'm really fascinated by. Behind me, you see, I have two Funkos, Big Batman and Small Batman. Those Big Batmans are relatively rare. 

 Do you see a world where, let's say I've purchased that Batman for £100 and I unsell it to someone that really wants it and it sold out for £250. And Warner Brothers being the owner of Batman DC, they will get paid a royalty from the sale that I make to that next person and then the next person sells it for more and the licensor continues to get of royalty. Is there a world where that can actually happen? 

 I think so. We spoke about secondary markets, especially the ones online. It's totally trackable. Funko did go down that line. Vivi, for example, is still in funding rounds, but still kind of building that. I think if you build it they will come Kevin Costnering it. But really if you build that platform where something you and I deem meaningful or valuable. Now we could talk about, you know, a community that trades and eventually we love the IP so much and the right owners that we understand that it's the right thing to do. You know, you want to support them, you want Funko and Warner Brothers to continue to come out with content. So I go back to that content community commerce that I mentioned, the beginning. Those three Cs they feed each other, right? And that's where I think this all meets. 

 And if there is a platform that will be able to do that in the future and we'll change the lingo and we won't call it NFTs or phygital or whatever that is. It's just people that are collectors that recognize the value in the end of the day. If I had a Andy Warhol picture on the wall behind me, I wish, you know, we would have to figure out is it of value, do we have an appraisal does it mean too much to you, as it means to me when all that comes together in a platform that provides those services and technology. Now we can also reward the right owners. That should be rewarded. 

 We recently had a client called Keepsake who launched an invincible collector trading card collection at San Diego Comic Con a few weeks ago. They sold out during the five days. It was hugely successful for them. And when we talk about this kind of stuff, I think about, you know, the demand was there, they sold out very quickly. There were people lining up outside the booth. It was a hugely successful for them. But what you're saying is that in the future there might be a world where all of that product that was sold out. If it. Then there's obviously demand, so it will be continued to be sold to, you know, other parties. There is potentially a way where other generations. 

 How fun is it to find something that was owned by your grandfather or your dad? And it might not mean a lot to you, but then you find out how valuable it is right now because of where it came from, who it was owned by and so on. So there's definitely, you know, there's a company who did it kind of low in a low tech way, but I have to applaud them. Adam from Pin Club Shout out. What they did with their pins is they started creating pins and it's great and people buy a lot of pins and it helps you flex your personality and what you're into and you can put on your jacket or your backpack or whatever. But it's only when they created the Pin Club community online and then offline at the consultation, they can trade the different pins. 

 Now there's, you know, we're reduced to the bartering system and maybe you make some money off it, but in the end of the day it's meaningful to someone. You saw who owned it. This can happen online or offline and now there's a lot of buzz and pinkub becomes the destination of where I buy things. Right. 

 Mm. Let's talk about something else that's getting a lot of attention that I think of you and want to talk to you about is virtual influences. So these virtual influencers are signing deals worth millions. What do you think about these virtual influencers? Do you think that they can really build a brand and sort of become at the level of a, you know, a real physical celebrity? Or do you think this is something that's going to come and go as well? 

 That's a really. So I have a long Term and short term opinion. Okay, so short term, there's a shit ton of money to be done to be made here because there are influencers. Right now you have Ludu Magdalu and there's a few others that are making $2.6 million a month. It's like 33k a post. There's something about the aesthetic, about knowing that it's not real, not pretending to be real. That's exciting. And there's a lot of investors in the space because guess what? But this virtual influencer, they can't fuck up. They can't say or do pulled over. 

 For DUI or cheat on their spouse or. 

 Absolutely, I'm not. And it's still a novelty, right, David? Like look at this influencer, this AI influencer that doesn't exist, that showed up in Wimbledon. So much praise, all the rage, right? She showed up, she looked cute, everyone was like, what is she wearing? How can I buy this? But it's still a novelty. It's exciting because it's rare. So my short term answer is yes, absolutely. You know, lean into it right now. It's kind of the way to go. You don't have to waste money on photo shoots, on personalities and egos. You have full control as a brand. And I think you'll see in the next five years, each and every brand will have a virtual influencer. Call it whatever you want, creator, Persona, and that will help converge the sales and discovery and so on. 

 My long term opinion is that in a few years, five, seven, 10 years, the space will be saturated. So right now, if I look at, on the licensing marketplace, Nagosh, I noticed that there is one virtual influencer and she's doing deal. She doesn't exist. She's like anime, like whatever. And she knows who her audience is. The company owns or knows who the audience is and what merch they want and they promote it and it's great. So there's also even from a licensing perspective, an opportunity for a revenue stream here, right? But give it a couple of years where every brand will already have their AI influencer. I think people will start craving messy again. Just human messy, just someone not perfect that doesn't say the perfect thing. And you never know what they're going to say. 

 And it's just, you know, even if it looks a bit sloppy, it's their bedroom or their personality and their goofs. And I think people will go back to like, oh my God, we want someone who's, you know, super cool or maybe you said you know, ugly is the new sexy. I think, I think that will start happening again and then you'll see them diminishing. There's another interesting perspective. One of the companies that I'm consulting to now, they create AI clones. So this is a different level. It's actually an AI, but not an avatar. So it's not, oh, let's make David say something stupid or do a dance, right? There's an actual LLM that scrapes all your podcasts, all the posts you ever put anything we want. 

 If you published a book, if you spoke at a conference and now builds a Persona, it's black, mirrorish. Like how cool and crazy it is that I can create a David that can create numerous podcasts at once just talking to me right now. Someone who can then appear in different places or answer every single client or fan of yours simultaneously. Exactly in your mannerism, in your tone, with all your knowledge and on an individual basis. That's scary. And again, I'm not naive. This will all go to porn in the end. Like, that's where the money is. Onlyfans didn't start that way. And, you know, it led to that. That's, that really is where the money. 

 But in the meantime for us in licensing, there are crazy profitable opportunities, especially in education and in entertainment, to see how we utilize these clones, how we bring certain Personas back to life, how we walk into KFC and. And every single kiosk has the kernel sandlers on it that has a full fledged conversation with me about my allergies and the secret menu and say something funny. And it goes way beyond Wendy's on Twitter or any interaction that a fan can have with a brand. 

 Let's talk about this David born clone. I'm really interested in him. So basically a clone of myself would be created and then that clone would get to work, answer my emails, do podcasts, post on LinkedIn, post on Instagram, and I'd just go put my feet up or go on holiday or. 

 It would free your time up for innovation and strategy. Right? The idea is not to replace you. It is the idea to free you time so you don't have to do the bullshit that can be automated. If you were a celebrity, you're a celebrity in the industry. But for example, if I'm a comedian, that's well known and now I can roast each and every one of my viewers, or if I am a movie producer and people can walk into a cinema and with a QR code, talk to me about, you know, the New movie I'm going to see. Ask me, like, cool questions about how it was made or what was my favorite moment, or even get a spoiler that no one else gets just because I scanned this and I interacted with it. That is the opportunity. 

 David born, for example, his clone can teach licensing. It can take all your knowledge about licensing, right? And if. And if a certain university wanted to put this in the syllabus where people can then learn from David about licensing, we could do it. The exciting part is it won't be in a masterclass kind of way. It won't be just me sitting there and David born talking to me. It'll be homebrew. I can go, david, yo, can you explain that? Again, I didn't get it. You know, from an attention retention standpoint, when you're actually having a conversation, it's 60% higher. If I am able to say, david, can you explain that? And you have the patience that maybe a teacher doesn't have nowadays, right? Let's talk about education. 

 If my son Neve comes back home and says, brother, fractions, and I'll be like, yeah, fractions are a bitch. It's not easy, but I can't explain it to you. And why didn't you ask the teacher in the end of class, why didn't you raise your hand and ask her to repeat it? And he can say something like, oh, I didn't want to be that kid, or she doesn't have patience. Like, she doesn't. But if he had access to a clone two hours every day as part of the syllabus or the school services, where he can go, yo, Einstein, can you use a soccer metaphor to explain that? Because I'm really into sports and will really help me understand that better. That's where we could truly change things. 

 Do you think in how many years until we jump on the podcast again? But it's my clone interviewing your clone, and we're off doing other stuff. How far away are we from that? 

 The big question is a, would we want that? Like, would we want to scale certain things or keep them special and in real time? And then the question is, who will want to watch it if it's two clones? I go back to the novelty, right? When they did it with. Who did they do it with? With Steve Jobs and Joe Rogan. They had them sit on a podcast together. Both AI. Both sides were AI Riveting conversation meant everything was the same, right? So we listened to it because it was new and exciting and something we didn't know if There were many of those out there. Don't know that I would take the time to listen to two clones speaking. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe if it was connected directly to something, you know, providing value. 

 But when do I think that people will start scaling their efforts with clones of some sort? Doesn't have to be visual, it could be text, it can be whatever. Tops five years. 

 Really exciting. I think one of the things I think about licensing, you know, has been accused of being quite traditional, being set in its ways and you know, you have some massive licensors that are maybe more risk averse. Do you see them making mistakes, trying to get involved with the future of licensing and what all that involves, but not doing good job or making some slip ups? Have you seen that happen? 

 It's happened already. I think we got very excited about AI with toys and found out very quickly that again, my conclusion is AI and toys. So it doesn't become Black Mirror ish and it doesn't take away from play. And development is mostly for, you know, if it's kids on the spectrum, any kind of neurosensitivity or neurodiversity. That's where I see it go very far and actually aid us in aid development and aid communication, where I think actually we hopped on it a bit too fast and you could see that Mattel and a few others kind of took the risk and God bless them because we wouldn't know. Right. And it kind of reeled back because it's not perfect yet. Right. 

 And you have to ask ourselves, where and when do we want to replace ourselves in our relationships and responsibilities and do we want to start so young? A lot of companies like Build a Bear Bluey from the BBC, a lot of companies are taking kind of a backseat on that and moonwalking out of the conversation because of all the risks involved. I think AI and technology, you should take the risks on them when it comes to process and automation and workflow and just kind of taking away things that are time blockers. But when it comes to creation of content, it's a hit or miss. You see H and M, you know, replacing all their models with AI. From a financial perspective, genius. From an ethical perspective, maybe. 

 I see a lot of companies working with Eko who are doing a wonderful job, Eko, with figuring out how do we create these online listings to convert to sales and interact better with people. There's companies like Visit with a Z that are helping a lot of brands. We use them ourselves to make sure that we design packaging that converts to sales better. Or enables us to understand which demo is spending more time and then when do they actually add something to the cart or buying it. So there's again, I go back to data driven decisions. You have to look at the data and embrace the data. Not completely go and do creative that's completely based on AI. Disney tried to do it now a few times and got some backlash around that. So there'll be what I call augmented creativity. 

 A lot of creators don't like when I say this, but there will be a balance. There will be a balance between what I create and then what do I automate or how do I infuse trends and figure out what that would look like. It all comes down to the balance. On the licensee side, for example, their risk is being mitigated in different ways. It will be with these flexible contracts. It will be the fact that I talk to a lot of them right now and a lot of them are developing their own brands. So, you know, if you're con, if you're depending on these big licensors that end up bullying you, or if you're squeezed kind of between the licensor and the retailer, now most of the risk sits on your plate. 

 But once you own a brand, and where do we see this in toys, all the toy companies, every licensee that used to manufacture toys now also owns a brand or developed their own brand. You see Spin Master with Rubik's Cube. You see MGA with lol Jazzwares with squishmallows. That helps mitigate the risk, right? That says I have skin in the game, I have full control. And not only at the mercy of licensors and their success. I have kind of a to Z control over an ip. And that means that I'm not dependent only on external success. 

 And of course that requires significant investment. And not every brand turns into like a squishmallows or an LOL surprise. You know, you could argue that, you know, it is easier for someone else to do the work like a Disney. You know, you're never going to get to that point of Mickey Mouse popularity, or maybe you are, but it will take you a long time to get there. You know, how do you think companies can create their own brand to compete with other brands have just been popular for generations and generations. 

 You know what? I hate to answer a question with a question, but I'll ask you, David, do you think it's even possible to go back to the days where there's one IP that everyone rec, you know, there'll never be another Madonna or another. You know, everything gets washed kind of flushed down in what I call the waterfall of AI is like all the br. It's just this waterfall and you're constantly. You're going down your feet and you're discovering a new brand here and a new brand there and new content and it's very hard. Everything is so fractured. It's not, it's not the same. You know, it's. There used to be one Jordan and one Madonna and one Mickey Mouse. And then the question is, in this attention economy where everything is so fractured, do you think that's what we're going after? 

 Like one global big brand that everyone will know? Is that what we strive to build? Or do we strive to build many different IPS that play in different spaces and maybe diversify our offering? 

 Yeah, I mean, I think that you see this across the board. Box office revenue is consistently lower now than it was pre pandemic because there's just more options how to consume media. So, you know, a film does $800,000 at the box office, that's actually really good now. Whereas, you know, you would have. For it to be a blockbuster hit, it used to have to be, you know, a billion plus. But people are going to cinemas less, you know, people are watching certain Netflix shows or HBO Max shows on streaming less. They're still watching the platform. But there's so many different things on offer there that, you know, people that like a reality show, they get what they want. People that like classic films are watching that, people that like action are watching that. 

 So there's such a diverse, this portfolio of things for people to do now that you're right that maybe there isn't a chance for there to be another Mickey Mouse or another. 

 You know, we want immediate gratification, everyone. Also in our industry, you want something to be a hit, hey, let's sprinkle that licensing dust on it and have it, you know, be this global sensation. And sometimes that doesn't happen. I just had a conversation with someone who replaced Pokemon back in the day. You know, ALCON brought it over. They. Everyone knocked on every door. Everyone was like what it was called something else back then. No one wanted it. Same with the good people at Toei that were trying that, you know, Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon, no one knew what the. They used to come to licensing show. No licensee wanted to talk to them about. Took a very long time for this to be a global sensation. And ip, that's Profitable and is known globally. 

 So again, this like, hey, let's develop an IP and let it become squishmallow overnight. Or, you know, let it become lol. That's. You have. There is an element of luck there and how to play the system, create that flywheel that we talked about and have all these touch points constantly, virtually and in real life. Touch points, touch points. Cultural memorable moments. And then keep everything super authentic. Just create these communities that are really into it. 

 A lot of the people listening will be learning about licensing for the first time. Perhaps they've never done any licensing whatsoever. Do you have some advice for them of how they can leverage AI and other new technologies to kind of improve their chances of success when they're ready to get into licensing? 

 Yeah. So lead generation, all the paperwork, these are things that AI will lower the threshold and welcome new audiences in. I mentioned Nagosh before. Negotia is a platform that really lowers the threshold. I know we ask ourselves a lot, who's the next Funko? Who's the next Disney? And because for so long we've been holding everything close to the best, you know, we have so many gatekeepers and middlemen. Even if you try to do a deal today, there's so many middlemen until you get the deal signed that are taking a bite out of the pie that everyone gets crumbs in the end. So I think technology will really aid with that. And again, it depends how you look at it. I'm sure the middlemen won't be happy with me right now, but in the end of the day, there will be marketplaces. 

 And it's not only Nagosch. Look at what Roblox is doing. You know, Roblox alone, their creators earned $923 million in 2024, up 25%. That's huge. And now what do they do? Roblox decides to open the platform for licensing, kind of lowering the threshold and telling a creator, oh, you want to now license an IP from Sega or from Netflix or from whatever to put right into your game and have people interact with it? No problem. We will facilitate that. It's a very, you know, I don't know if turnkey. But an easier process. Someone that would have spent so much time to try and find the right person and then, you know, find someone that will represent him or will represent them or will connect them to the right person and then pay for legal and everything. 

 But now the brands are recognizing, oh, we could have more touch points with the new generation if we just Kind of lower that threshold and make it easier. And Roblox recognizes that. They rub so many eyeballs that the value that they're providing IPs is, hey, here's an easy way to seep into our offering to have more touch points and then, oh, and create new merch based on that. So, again, there will be places where you could go easily connect with the right person. Negotiation is called negotia, because everything's negotiable, right? So, yes, you can continue to negotiate, but there will be a lot of boilerplate opportunities where it's like, it doesn't have to be so difficult. Some manufacturers don't even know that there are licensees. Right? That's a lingo that we created, again, making it harder and gatekeeping. 

 This I talk sometimes to huge manufacturers and they're like, oh, so I'm a licensee now, I guess. Right? You are a manufacturer looking to connect to a brand in order to sell merchandise online, brick and mortar, whatever that will be. So I think the lingo will go away. There will be opportunities with technology to enable people to negotiate terms and conditions rather quickly and to be able to approve things quicker, to be able to protect a brand better online. There's a wonderful company named Podkey who does that, just scrapes every marketplace and enables us to play that Whack a Mole game that we couldn't before AI Right. We used to. We used to find counterfeit online and then we would take them down, but then they would pop up with. 

 Pop up under a different channel. 

 And now at AI Whack a Mole, do it fast enough and in a way where we could really control and protect the brands and convert offenders to becoming what we call licensees. 

 So before we wrap up, Sharon, tell me what's the one trend or opportunity in licensing that you're most excited about that you really think listeners should start paying attention to? You've mentioned some of them. Is there anything you haven't mentioned today? 

 There's a few trends. I think our pockets right now are hot pockets that everyone needs to look into is wellness and education. I think when it comes to wellness, I was even researching for a client not long ago. You know, even men's wellness, grooming and health and so much is booming right now. It's expensive. Expected to be 115 billion and change by 2028. So, again, listen, the pandemic did a number of us, and we all want to be healthier and we all want to live better. And technology is helping us. It keeps us alive longer. But then we figured out longer doesn't necessarily mean better. So consumers want branded supplements and apps and fitness and the sleep. We just freaking want to sleep. So all this technology is enabling us to do so much. 

 But then when it comes to sleep and gut and exercise and wearables and weight loss and mental health. Right. I think that's a huge white space. And you see apps like Calm already kind of crawling into the space. You see athletes becoming the new Personas that we're looking at and seeing. Oh, that's, you know, look, he's disciplined and he's healthy, and, you know, they look good. They're not, you know, the fickle celebrities that are harder to work with. We have this Olympic halo that's kind of casting a layer of sports and health and wellness onto everything. So I think that is a white space that we should be looking at very seriously in either developing our own brands, figuring branded merchandise that's relevant to, like, that ethos and DNA and really serving people. And there's all kinds of levels to that. 

 You know, there's kids, but there's also grown, you know, adults and older people that need to be serviced, and they are very loyal to brands. So, again, all this age tech that we talk about, and CES has a whole section of it right now that is definitely an opportunity. And then personalization, right? Once upon a time, it was David, take an aspirin. Everything will be okay. Here's a blockbuster drug that will solve all our problems. And now we want health products that are customized. You know, my shampoo for my issues and. And, you know, my supplements from what I'm trying to achieve. So we talked about fractionalization of content, but there's also this fractionalization of merchandise where everything will become customized and personalized. 

 I want to. I want a fragrance that no one else knows the makeup of that. So it's my smell, and no one else smells like that. 

 Or even maybe it amplifies David's, like, pheromone. I don't know, like, it's yours. It's. It's something that plays off of your DNA. Right. And I'm very proud of Portland street for not being afraid to do that. For a lot of our customers, we do. We create sometimes merchandise or websites for very small MOQs with product development that most licensees wouldn't roll out of bed for. They're still waiting for Massmart. They're waiting for those big orders from Sears that ain't coming in anymore, where we're really trying to pay attention and figure out what is that special something? What is that merchandise or category or magical moment in real life? What is that festival where you need to collect, connect to and we will create product for that is very customized for a brand specific audience or mission or goal. 

 Even if that means that it's not huge margins or a huge po, but it's meaningful. 

 Well, I think that the big takeaway for me from the chat we've just had is that the future is exciting. Thank you so much again for joining us. Sharon. If people want to connect with you, how can they find you? 

 LinkedIn is probably the best. I have the most annoying voicemail machine, so don't even try. I'm. I'm at Sharon on LinkedIn or SharonPortmanStreet.com so tag me on this and then I will be famous David and everyone can contact me. Awesome. 

 Well, Sharon, thanks again for joining us on the Bornlicensing to License podcast. 

 I truly appreciate you. Thanks David. 

 I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Bornlicensing to License podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe. And if you're eager to learn more about licensing, I encourage you. Take a look at my course, Learn to License. I've condensed almost 20 years of learning in my licensing career to help others understand how licensing works. And as a reward for sticking around, here is a discount code for you to put in. That code is born to license 25. I hope to see you there.