Funko, Hasbro, Care Bears + more - our Best Bits from 2025.

We're wrapping up 2025 with our best bits from the year. 

The moments that made us think differently about licensing, the stories we're still talking about, and the insights you need heading into 2026.

This year, we sat down with some of the industry's most influential voices. From Lucy Salisbury explaining how Funko sifts through thousands of licensing pitches when "everyone says it's the next biggest movie," to Charlotte Payne revealing how Care Bears has stayed relevant for 45 years, to Michelle Ahern sharing what it's really like to manage the hottest preschool brand on the planet - these are the conversations that define what great licensing looks like.

Here's what you'll hear in this compilation:

Lucy Salisbury (Funko) - How Funko uses Google Trends, TikTok searches, and Amazon data to cut through the noise when every licensor promises "the next big thing."

Julia Kamoda (Hasbro) - Why McDonald's Monopoly has succeeded for 30+ years and how iconic IP like Peppa Pig cuts through crowded retail aisles.

Simon Kay (AT New Media) - The urgent warning about digital licensing's future: UGC, Web3, reverse merchandising, and why "you've got no time—don't wait anymore."

Jenna Chalkley (Product Development) - Why product development professionals aren't celebrated enough and how the industry shifted from "just slapping brands on products" to valuing creativity.

Michelle Ahern (The Wiggles) - Managing the hottest kids brand with licensing agents as the "first line of defense" and why "what's in it for the kids?" drove every decision.

Charlotte Payne (Care Bears) - The 45-year formula: staying "relevant for today" while honoring nostalgia, with surprise collaborations like Hello Kitty, Barbie, and Wicked.

David Schnider (Legal) - Contract traps that cost hundreds of thousands and the auditor who in 25 years never found less than 5% discrepancy in licensing audits.

Sharon Weisman (Future Trends) - Why wellness is hitting 115 billion by 2028 and personalization is the next frontier in licensed merchandise.

Annabel Rochfort (Location-Based Entertainment) - The LBE hotspots: competitive socializing and resort destinations, plus why location matters more than brand strength alone.

Jasmine & Vincent (Fira X Wear) - Why being fans of the IP you're licensing is "of the utmost importance" and how authenticity shows in every product.

Caleb (The Collab King) - The biggest brand mistakes: fearing the secondary market and overproduction killing hype—the Beanie Baby effect.

Whether you're negotiating your first license or your five-hundredth, whether you're launching a product line or a theme park - these are the moments that will make you better at what you do.

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Transcript

Hey everyone. David Born here. So it's that moment of the holidays where you're approaching the New year, you're relaxing, but if you're anything like me, you start to get a little restless. If that sounds about right, then this episode is for you. Today is all about giving you the very best bits from the Born to License podcast this year. The biggest takeaways, the most fascinating insights and my key learnings. You're going to hear from the likes of Funko and Hasbro. I'll share moments from chats about managing major IP like Care Bears and the Wiggles. We'll cover topics including product development, the future of licensing, as well as the legal side of the business too. This is the year that was in licensing. Let's dive in. Our first guest of season two set the bar incredibly high. Funko's Lucy Salisbury manages over 1,000 active licenses. 

 That's not a typo, 1,000 licenses. I wanted to understand how does Funko decide on what properties to License? So you mentioned Lucy, Funko has over a thousand licenses and everyone wants to work with you, which is a really luxurious position to be in licensing. When everyone's knocking on your door, how do you actually decide what gets the green light? Walk us through the decision making process. 

 So yeah, we've, we have a strategy. We, we know that we want to target licenses in specific brand genres that are covering growth fan segments and growth regions for Funko. And alongside that we get pitched every day by IP owners, everyone from kind of more regionally based, smaller IP owners to major studios. And you know, there's a lot of decisions, there's a lot of factors that we want to take into account there. So we look at, you know, fan demand, content pipeline is there, you know, great content moments we can link in with retailer interest. We're constantly getting suggestions from our retail teams, from our sales teams on licenses they would like to see and kind of cultural heat moments, you know, pick up from social media. What's really hot at the moment? 

 So we tend to ask is there a fandom behind this property and what's the community behind it? Is there more kind of cosplay? We might see brands at conventions that we think this is becoming much hotter. TikTok trends evergreen potential or is it more kind of based around specific moment in time? I think Funko would like to work with. They can be great product opportunities for Funko but we want to develop more long to medium term partnerships with our IP owners and sometimes, you know, it's based on A gut decision as well. Like are there real fans within the business that can see this being a strong property for Funko? So when you take all of that into consideration, hopefully we make some good choices and we License strong ip. 

 You really need to have your finger on the pulse as to what's happening in pop culture, what's happening in entertainment, what's happening in 24 months time. I mean I'm sure that you're dealing with every License or that you're engaging with, telling you that their property is the next big thing, sharing brand decks and you know, saying that, you know, the movie launching in 12 to 18 months time is just going to be a huge hit. How do you prepare for the next Barbie or Wicked? Making sure that you can supply demand while mitigating risk if the film bombs? 

 Yeah, I mean, you know, you work in licensing, right? Everything's going to be the next biggest movie and opportunity. I mean we look at whole array of data. I mean our social team are all over this. They're looking at Google Trends, we look at Amazon searches, we look at TikTok searches, we try to have a kind of more data approach to it. We're not just kind of listening to the stories that the licensors tell us. Although that's really important because when major studios are kind of sharing with you kind of top line marketing plans and you can see the scale of the backing they're getting from those, from those IP owners, then that gives you a bit more kind of surety and credibility around. I think with the titles you mentioned there was a feeling that they really would be huge opportunities for Funko. 

 We try to be quite measured in our risk. We'll happily back a really strong potential product opportunity. But when it comes to product ordering that's very much based on retail interest and demand. We don't want to be in a situation where we make too much product and we want to make sure that there's scarcity built in there. But yeah, there's some science involved in evaluating opportunities. 

 What I love about Lucy's approach is that combination of art and science. They're not just listening to what licensors promise. They're looking at Google Trends, TikTok data, Amazon searches, they're letting the fans tell them what works. That's a brilliant approach. On the licensor side, Hasbro's Julia Komodo works one of the most iconic promotional partnerships in history. McDonald's monopoly Julia helps manage more than 170 brand partnerships annually and she opened my eyes and to just how powerful the promotions category really is in licensing. When we talk about promotions in licensing, what exactly does that mean? 

 That's a really good question, actually, and a good one to start on. So it can mean different things to different entertainment brands. But at Hasbro, a really simple way to think about it is it's a form of License that has a call to action or an entry mechanic. So it will tend to be something that short term, potentially up to three months, and it drives a moment in time. So if you think about it from a theatrical film perspective, you might have a new movie coming out. There will be something around that movie to tap into that buzz. For us, it will be, depending on what you partner with us on, it could be a entry mechanic. That's a game. So if you think about Monopoly, you will have potentially a scam play win. 

 And that is very different and a very different consumer journey in consumer engagement than a traditional License. So that's kind of how we determine it at Hasbro. 

 Let's home in a bit more on the food and beverage space, because I have. I have some experience in that. That space, and I know how difficult it is to get the attention of somebody in a supermarket. The average person walking down the supermarket aisle. I've read statistics that say, you know, you have three seconds to capture their attention. They're, you know, they're busy, they're shopping for their things, and they go to a particular aisle because they need to buy, I don't know, crisps, for example, or tomato sauce. What is it about promotions that can get their attention? 

 So if it's an iconic IP that immediately cuts through the noise and people can identify iconic characters and iconic assets from a brand that everybody knows quite far away from the aisle. I'm going to quote someone who said something really interesting. I probably might misquote this, but apparently Amy Winehouse said, if you can draw a person or a character, if you're a child and you can draw a person or a character, your look is very iconic. And if you think about her hair andy Warhol and people like that, if you have a character, I'll use Peppa Pig as an example. The outline of Peppa Pig is so iconic. And also we've got research that shows that when kids see the animation of Peppa Pig, they feel very comforted when they. When they see the outline. 

 And if you put, say, Peppa Pig on a packet or something, you. You just immediately, no matter what age you are within the UK or any market, is one of our biggest IPs you will instantly recognize and it draws you to that product that you're working with. And these uplift and the engagement and you're driving an emotional response. And people often feel really warm when they see something that brings joy to them. And it's the same for games. So people remember playing games with their families, they remember those moments. And if they see Mr. Monopoly or trigger Pursuit or something like that, they're intrigued that it gets their interest. 

 The promotion space moves at lightning speed compared to traditional product licensing. But when it's done right, like McDonald's monopoly running successfully for three decades across more than 20 countries, it's licensing magic. An area of licensing that has serious momentum is all things digital. Simon K has been focused on games and gaming as the core licensing category for 30 years, back when people thought he was crazy. Simon's insights on where digital licensing is heading are absolutely critical for anyone in this industry. Let's look ahead, say five years from now. Simon, what licensing trends in gaming that you're most excited about? 

 I'm personally excited about the growth of UGC and Web3 and where that takes everything. Now obviously NFTs are a very difficult word and have been for a period of time purely because of what they are. But from a games and gaming perspective, experiences that move from Web two into Web three and integrate very well, not just from a monetization perspective and using different cryptocurrencies which are going to grow, you know, don't be completely against the world of crypto. I know it's a hot potato, but it's not going to disappear. So understanding what cryptos might work in the games and gaming space for particular transactional reasons is quite interesting. Obviously UGC isn't going to disappear. So from a strategic perspective for any IP owner, have a plan. You know, how do I view user generated content? 

 Do I want to set up some restrictions or some parameters that I'm happy for my IP to be used evolved? Who then owns that ip? From a user generated content perspective, you know what happens if some creator makes something amazing in a game that's so, so hot and popular? How can I get access to it to merchandise it out of the game? And maybe someone creates an amazing bag or hat or jewelry or watch and you think, wow, you know, this is so popular, they're all buying it, they'll buy the other thing in the real world. So I think you've got this very exciting reverse inverse process from creativity that actually drives merchandising opportunity. So a combination of those is really interesting. I think ownership of digital assets will continue to grow and what that means. 

 Every IP owner needs to have a strategy with regards to what's the right amount of money I should get from someone reselling an asset in a web3 space with my brand on, if they haven't thought that through. So this isn't just about games and gaming, it's about reverse merchandising, if I can call it that. And it's also about the proliferation of digital assets and how comfortable different IP owners are with their IP going into that space. And I think the biggest piece of advice I could give anybody is don't wait for it anymore. You've got no time. If you're not proactive now with this space, you'll just miss it all because it's not like it was 30 years ago. With console lifecycles 7 to 10 years. Here comes the next one. We can be ready, we can be planning, off we go. 

 This is like weekly. Now that there's potentially a new opportunity that I should be thinking about across all the different angles that we've been speaking about in this call, Simon's message. 

 Is both exciting and urgent. Digital licensing isn't a category anymore. It's the future of licensing itself. And if you're not experimenting and learning now, you're already behind. Here's the truth. Most people don't understand. Signing a licensing deal isn't the finish line. You're just at the start. The real work happens in product development. And Jenna Chalkley, Born to License as head of product development, is one of those unsung heroes who actually makes licensing work. One of the things I wanted to talk about was a conversation that we had early last year, and this was when were talking about whether or not you'd like to join the team at Born to License. And I shared with you that I felt that people in our industry, in product development weren't given enough credit for the contribution that they've made to the world of licensing. 

 Why do you think that is? Why do you think that you and your product development colleagues may not be celebrated enough in the industry? 

 Oh, that's a nice question, david. I think it's more of a sales driven industry, or it definitely has been previously. I think. I do think it's changing slightly now. People are starting to be a lot more creative. You know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it would be a brand and a character slapped onto a product. It wouldn't. There wouldn't be a lot of thought into it, not like how it is, you know, in the market currently. So people are being a lot more creative now. Therefore you're going to have to get creative minds and great designers and sculpt designers and people who know what they're doing. So now we are being celebrated. You've got to have a keen eye for detail. So these types of things are required now, but years ago they weren't and it was all about the money. Right. 

 So people who work on the creative side aren't necessarily pulling in the numbers and that, I think that's why potentially weren't celebrated. But I think times are changing. 

 Good. Well, they certainly should be celebrated. Jenna's passion for this work, despite its challenges, is what makes great licensed products possible. In my view, product development professionals deserve far more recognition than they get because without them, the products wouldn't make it to the shelves. If you think managing licensing can be hard, try managing licensing for the Wiggles during their absolute peak. Michelle Lehern lived this reality fielding thousands of requests and helping build everything from theme parks to global retail programs. Well, let's talk about, specifically about what it's like to work with the hottest brand in the world. Because I feel like this right now, BBC Worldwide are dealing with Bluey just being this phenomenon and everyone's knocking on their door wanting to work with Bluey. Everybody wants Bluey License, everybody wants, you know, just to collaborate with that brand. 

 And I imagine that's what it was like when you're working with the Wiggles. So I'm curious to know, how do you manage this flood, this never ending queue of licensing requests that would have come your way. How do you even manage that? 

 Well, I mean, if I'm being completely honest, we had incredible licensing agents, to be honest. We could not have filtered through it or that they were the first gate for us. Like it became like really critical for them to sort of run a filter for us. So obviously relying on agents in the different territories that we had to really be able to be the first line of defense to help us understand what was a worthwhile opportunity and what wasn't. And obviously were based in Australia. You know, we'd obviously been doing it by 10, for 10, 15 years by this stage. But there was always different things happening in different markets. You know, were trying to break into the UK market that's completely different to the US market. 

 We were looking at reformatting the brand into, and dubbing it into different languages in, throughout Europe and China and South America. So we really relied, first and foremost, we relied heavily on having subject matter experts in each territory. So that. 

 Did you give them some kind of like, parameters or say, like, don't bring us deals that are in this category or less than this value or like, was that, were there kind of parameters that you put in place? 

 Yeah, look, we did have parameters in place, but they were never financial because to be honest with you, the main thing, this is what was also just really special about working for the Wiggles was that because they were sort of homegrown, family based, a group of friends, a family creating a business that was Born out of entertaining children. The number one rule on everything was what's in it for the kids? And as in what's beneficial for children. Not just like, oh, let's just give them candy. Or let's, you know, even like if they needed to do a TV appearance, they wouldn't just go on camera and just perform for cameras. They'd be like, get a local school in, bring the kids in. Like, we are here for the kids. 

 And so that sort of ethos of like, what's healthy for kids, what's beneficial for kids, you know, what's socially developmentally appropriate for a 2 to 5 year old, which was the age bracket at the time, you know, and that then applied to everything else. So we're not. So, I mean, one of the most straightforward things, were very big on health and safety for children. We were very big on like health and, you know, and being food conscious as well. Like obviously songs like Fruit Salad and. 

 I was going to ask that. So like nutritional, did you have like nutritional standards? You had to. If there was a food or beverage partner that came to you, they had to share, you know, the nutritional makeup of the product to make sure it wasn't high in sugar, high in salt, high in fat, anything like that. Yeah. 

 So we had a nutritionist that was part of our team. So there were. We had a nutritionist and dietitian that was a consultant. And so our licensing agents knew we wouldn't deal with anything with sugar above whatever was the level at the time. And so it was only natural sugars, X, Y, Z. So if somebody came along and they were selling chocolate or something, it was just a no go. I think at the time, were the only successful preschool property globally to never endorse confectionery. 

 What struck me about Michelle's experience is the sheer scale of demand. When you have a truly hot property, the licensing requests never stop. And that's Both an incredible opportunity and an enormous challenge requiring strategic thinking, not just saying yes to everyone. The next conversation is particularly special to me. Care Bears has been a part of my life, literally since the day I was Born. I received Swift Heart Rabbit as a newborn and treasured it in my entire childhood. Charlotte Payne from Cloudco Entertainment shared how this 45 year old brand stays relevant generation after generation. And you mentioned nostalgia. And I think that there is a trend across the entire licensing world right now where sort of evergreen, generationally loved brands, nostalgic brands, just having a huge moment that doesn't seem like it's going to end. 

 Why, why do you think nostalgic brands are doing so well in licensing right now? 

 I don't know. It's really interesting. I think it depends on the brand. You know, I think Peanuts has had a great moment. They've bought back with a big anniversary year. You know, hello Kitty in some respects has come back through that kind of nostalgia as well. And, and we're talking about brands that have had quite a big impact in licensing and retail. I think that whether it's post Covid, we talk about a lot of this internally of kind of, you know, why nostalgia is playing such an important part. 

 And I think it's fascinating to see that post Covid people have gravitating towards brands that had an emotional connection for them as a child or just brands that they know and they trust or that, you know, we're talking about a generation that also wants to pass down that brand love to their kids as well. So I think it's really interesting to see how nostalgia brands have made a comeback. But I think there are, they're also just great brands that have maybe like stood the test of time and just have an opportunity to come back in a different way. Carers is definitely different though, to what it was 45 years ago. And I think that's really important as a brand owner, is making sure that you are relevant for today. 

 And you know, I think we're seeing that as a success because we're being able to talk to a multigenerational audience. So yes, we have the nostalg and the kind of millennial original fans of Care Bears, but also how we show up with new content on TikTok has kind of opened more of a Gen Z teen and tween kind of demo. I think Care Bears in its nature is a plush toy and bear that people love to cuddle and it's colorful and I think. So that seems to be resonating as well from a younger demo. So I think the interesting thing with nostalgia brands is that they can gravitate in a different way to new audiences and kind of serve a purpose. But, yeah, it's fascinating to see how they've kind of made big comebacks. 

 What Charlotte understands is that nostalgic brands can't just rely on nostalgia. They have to earn relevance with each new generation or while respecting what made them special in the first place. And that's a bit of an art form. Now, let's talk about something that makes most people's eyes glaze over, but absolutely shouldn't. Licensing contracts. David Schneider from Nolan Hyman has seen it all, and he's going to explain why the fine print matters more than you think. So let's get into a bit more detail. David, I'm sure you've reviewed hundreds, if not thousands of licensing contracts in your career. Tell me some sneaky red flags that inexperienced licensees often miss when it comes to the fine print. 

 Yeah, so there's some key ones. You know, I think licensees have a tendency to look at the business terms and not bother with the legal terms, figuring it's a standard contract and I can't change it anyways. But there can be a lot of traps in there. They're not even necessarily traps, they're just contract provisions that, if you're not familiar with or don't know what to look for, can be a problem later on. So one of the most important ones is the definition of net sales. So, you know, people come to me and say, yeah, I got a 10% royalty. I said, great, 10% of what? It could be your profits, your gross. You know, I have had new licensees come to me thinking they're paying 10% of their profits, and they're not. 

 They're paying 10% of their gross, which could be eating a substantial portion of their profits. The typical deal is going to be some variation of net sales. So that means the gross sales less, some things that get backed out. But that's a critical definition of what gets backed out. You know, a typical agreement will allow you to back out your sales costs, sorry, your sales tax, maybe platform fees. If you're doing something like a video game that's on a Steam or other platform. But most of them are not going to let you take too much out. There'll be some allowance for returns. There'll be some treatment for trade discounts. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make is they don't read that language. And it'll have, say, a 5 or 10% cap on discounts, but they give 20% discounts at wholesale or more. 

 And then when it comes time to report the royalty, they are paying on amounts they didn't collect on because they were capped on their discounts and they didn't realize it. So it's really important to read that language and understand specifically what it is you're paying on. 

 What are some other red flags that you have for us? 

 David so one of the ones that's come up more in the last few years are transfer fees. So I've seen this. It's now fairly common, but it wasn't 10 years ago. So what I see in a lot of License agreements now is that if the licensee sells their company or changes ownership or takes on an investment, the licensor gets a portion of that. So it's really sort of counterintuitive. The reason they do that is let's say you're getting a Disney License, you're doing Mickey Mouse T shirts. Disney's view is your company is gaining value because you're using Mickey Mouse on your products. So if because of that you're able now go sell your company to someone for $10 million, Disney should get a piece of that because it was partially because of the value they brought to the table. I get that. 

 I think most licensees find it offensive, those clauses, while the concept makes some sense, oftentimes the way they work does not. So you can have a company where they have multiple License agreements. No one License really drives the value of their company, and each License has a minimum $100,000 transfer fee. So now you sell the company for $2 million and you're paying maybe 500,000 to different licensors and fees. It makes that sale certainly much less enjoyable for me. 

 On our Eyes and See, I imagine that some people that listened to this episode probably went back and actually read their contracts. Really read them, maybe read them again. And maybe they saw something in there that they didn't realize when signing Sharon Wiseman thinks about licensing not just as it is today, but as it will be in five or 10 years. I loved my chat with Sharon about emerging trends in licensing. Tell me, what's the one trend or opportunity in licensing that you're most excited about? That that you really think listeners should start paying attention to? You've mentioned some of them. Is there anything you haven't mentioned today? 

 I think our pockets right now, our hot pockets that everyone needs to look into, is wellness and education. I think when it comes to wellness. I was even researching for a client not long ago. You know, even men's wellness, grooming, and health and so much is booming right now. It's expected to be 115 billion and change by 2028. So, again, listen, the pandemic did a number of us, and we all want to be healthier, and we all want to live better. And technology is helping us. You know, it keeps us alive longer, but then we figured out longer doesn't necessarily mean better. So consumers want branded supplements and apps and fitness and sleep. We just freaking want to sleep. So all this technology is enabling us to do so much. 

 But then when it comes to sleep and gut and exercise and wearables and weight loss and mental health. 

 Right. 

 I think that's a huge white space. And you see apps like Calm already kind of crawling into the space. You see athletes becoming the new Personas that we're looking at and seeing. Oh, that's, you know, look, he's disciplined and he's healthy, and, you know, they look good. They're not, you know, the fickle celebrities that are harder to work with. We have this Olympic halo that's kind of casting a layer of sports and health and wellness onto everything. So I think that is a white space that we should be looking at very seriously and either developing our own brands, triggering branded merchandise that's relevant to, like, that ethos and DNA and really serving people. And there's all kinds of levels to that. 

 You know, there's kids, but there's also grown, you know, adults and older people that need to be serviced, and they are very loyal to brands. So, again, all this age tech that we talk about, and CES has a whole section of it right now, that is definitely an opportunity. And then personalization. Right? Once upon a time, it was david taking aspirin. Everything will be okay. Here's a blockbuster drug that will solve all our problems. And now we want health products that are customized. You know, my shampoo for my issues and, you know, my supplements from what I'm trying to achieve. So we talked about fractionalization of content, but there's also this fractionalization of merchandise where everything will become customized and personalized. 

 I want a fragrance that no one else knows the makeup of that. So it's my smell, and no one else smells like that. 

 Or. And even maybe it amplifies David's, like, pheromone. I don't know. Like, it's yours. It's. It's something that plays off of your DNA. Right. 

 One thing I love about Sharon is that she challenges us to think bigger. The licensing industry isn't standing still. It's evolving rapidly and if you're not paying attention to trends, you're going to be left behind. Annabel Rochefort has just started her own licensing consultancy that works with global consumer brands and entertainment properties. Her expertise in brand extension strategy and scaling licensing programs internationally offers valuable lessons for anyone in this business. And location based entertainment has very much expanded from, you know, beyond traditional theme parks into other areas. What emerging categories are you most excited about at the moment? Or where do you think there are maybe some untapped opportunities? 

 So that's a really good question. So this is my, this is obviously my personal opinion. So I think competitive socializing for me is the, is the hotspot at the moment at Ferrari launching the esports tournament during COVID it was the most organic brand extension for the business to continue to engage with their fans. So I think that there's a real power behind competitive socializing where Covid was a big learning. So you know, to have that competitive socializing where you necessarily might not have to be within the attraction, you could also participate at home. So, you know, like the F1 Esports at the Tottenham Stadium, you know, these kind of activations I think are fantastic. So I think competitive socializing is a big one. 

 I think we're seeing a lot more around the resort destinations as well because, you know, families now like to travel where, you know, economy is tough at the moment. 

 Right. 

 So for a family to travel, book a hotel, book a flight and book to go to Universal, book to go to Disney World, booked to go to SeaWorld, whatever they're doing, it's expensive. So if you look at, I think the model, like if you look at what Abu Dhabi do on Yas Islands, which is genius, you know, you stay in the hotels and you get all theme park tickets included within your stay. So I think kind of how the person responsible in the household is booking that. The family holiday, the group gathering away, whatever it is. I think that's something that will also be a big trend is to kind of look to see, right, you know, let's, when we book this, how much more do we have to pay or how much more can we save? 

 I went to an all inclusive. Actually it wasn't an all inclusive. It was an all in the same place. A destination resort in the Bahamas where, you know, you'd go downstairs. Atlantis. Yes. You go downstairs and you could, you know, Go on the water slide, then go back up to your room if you wanted. And it was great. I didn't have to, you know, get a cab anywhere or anything like that. It was all there and the beach was right there as well. It was, you know, such an amazing experience. So you think this is something where in particularly in the licensing space there's more opportunities to lean into? 

 Yeah, and I think you know, as again it goes back to an internal strategy and having the right people, you know, running this business for the company. But you know, you want to find the best players within the market. You know at Ferrari there was never a problem about finding partners. It was always about finding the right partners. So you know, I think that some brands could be tempted because they're probably having to, you know, work harder to sell their brands. You know, I've beat, I've worked for some of these brands. I'm not going to mention them but I've worked for some of these brands which you definitely have to work harder to sell. So I think finding the right partner in the right location is the most important thing. 

 So you know, if you're building something on Yas island, you know that around you're going to have Sea World, Ferrari World, Warner Brothers and now Disney World. That's, that's going to be opening up there in a few years time. So you know, if you're a brand that can get yourself onto an island like that, it's going to be completely strategic because there's going to be contin flow of traffic going there. You know, if you're a brand that goes and builds in the middle of nowhere, you know who's going to go. I don't think it matters how good the brand is. So I think the destination I think is really key. High to high touristic destinations. I think we've seen a lot of success with stories with at the moment. 

 So when I talk about you know, Frameless in the uk, you know I think that there's some, it's sort of like the family Entertainment Centers, the 6,000 square meter within a city attraction, you know, interactive museums, the Titanic exhibition, you know the Van Gogh, like all of these kind of pop ups. I think that's, that's an interesting space at the moment because it's a quick turnaround of revenue. 

 The LBE space is critically important to the licensing industry and it was so great to get Bella's take. Jasmine and Vincent at Fearaware represent something we're seeing more of entrepreneurs building brands that Bridge the gap between licensing and original ip. Their anime inspired fashion line tapped into one of the fastest growing demographics in licensing. How important do you think it was that you were fans of the first property you were licensing? Because, you know, in the licensing world, there's a lot of people that are just told that this is a popular property. I'm going to go and License that, but I actually don't know it. How important do you think it was that you knew My Hero Academia you were a fan of the show? From a passion perspective, I think it's of the utmost importance. 

 I know that, like, obviously money runs the world and you know, people, you know, large companies partner and want to do stuff and they just want to. Like we said before, there's lots of companies that just put a face on a T shirt and sell it and if they have the audience, great, they make money. But like, it's. It's about more than that for us, right? Like this art, you know, this company is our baby too. And it's like we want to do everything, you know, well and of high quality, but we also want it to align with our passion because otherwise we can just, you know, do our nine to five jobs, right? Like, this is something that we're passionate about, that we just want to, you know, bring to life. 

 And we just feel that, you know, being a fan of it means that your passion being well integrated into every part of the launch process. So. And I think that when people actually get the product, and a lot of people who aren't even My Hero Academia fans really love the product too, right? Just because it's stylish. So I think that's the great part is we want to make a product where even if someone's not a fan of the ip, they can buy it and say, maybe I should actually check that out. 

 And from a practical standpoint as well, were, like I said, a small company and we're kind of growing partially. Well, not partially in large part due to the fact that I'm a creator. And so we also wanted to make sure we made something that we felt like would resonate with my audience. And ultimately our goal is to grow past just my audience. But being a small company, you knew that were kind of starting with that. So it's kind of like, okay, what am I a fan of? What are you a fan of? What is something that is going to inspire my own design sense? What is something that's going to resonate with my audience and like, caused them to share it and spread it out as well. And my hero, academia, just kind of hit all of those boxes for us. 

 What I love about Jasmine and Vincent's story is their authenticity. They're not corporate executives who studied market data. They're fans who built a business around what they and their community actually want. That authenticity shows in every product they create. Now, licensing would be nothing without the fans. Caleb, known as the collab king, represents the future of licensing in many ways. He's a content creator who's built a business around collaborations with major brands. His perspective on how influencers and creators are changing licensing is something every brand needs to understand. Let's talk about. Let's go back to licensing. Let's talk about licensing professionals that might be listening to this podcast. What's the biggest mistake that you see companies making when. When trying to tap IP fandoms? What, what advice can you give to licensors to make sure that everything they're doing is really authentic? 

 Authentic, you know, don't be afraid of the secondary market. I think is a huge issue that brands are falling into right now. I think people are very intimidated for some reason by ebay, right? When really ebay creates a secondary market, just creates an automatic feedback to your product. You know, if you Release something that's $10 and you look on ebay that it was a hundred dollars, congratulations, you have created insane hype around your own product. I think if you adjust to that and say, okay, that hundred dollars should be our hundred dollars. We need to 20x the amount of product next time and make sure that those ebay prices are lower. That's what ultimately kills these brands. That's what Funko, I believe, is running into. Everyone says, everything's the next Beanie Baby. That's. That's essentially what killed Beanie Babies. 

 They overprinted one day and they essentially just killed their brand. I think overproduction is what's killing these brands. And I think. I think that's number one. You know, if you are forcing these. And I think licensing is a lot harder to obtain. So I think it's pushing these brands into a position where they have to create a large amount of product in order to break even and make money on these. When, you know, back then, when you can obtain an IP for a lot cheaper and you could create something that's very hype, you could put a lot of creativity into it and you weren't focused on, oh, my gosh, I have to give this brand royalties. I have to have the upfront cost of X amount. I have to create so much product, so many different pieces in order to break even. 

 I think that we're running into a lot of issues with that, just the overproduction and then also the fear of the secondary market. 

 Caleb's story shows that licensing isn't just evolving, it's being disrupted by creators who had direct access to audiences and can negotiate from a position of strength. Brands that don't understand how to work with this new generation of partners are going to struggle. So there you have it. The year that was in licensing told through the voices of the people who are actually doing the work, making the deals, and shaping the future of this industry. Once again, I'd like to say to everyone who's listened to the podcast this year, thank you. It's something new that I've been trying. I've had such an amazing time doing it, so much so that I already have a lot of ambitious plans for 2026. So stay tuned for that. 

 To our guests who shared their time and wisdom, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast this year. And of course I want to do a big shout out to Eduardo Fagassa. He is my editor, my partner in crime for this podcast. He's doing such a brilliant job and looking forward to continuing to work with him throughout 2026 and beyond. Enjoy the rest of your holidays and we'll be In Touch in 2026. I'm david born and this has been Born to License.